Genre Identification

[Stryke]

I just want to get out the fact that I know that this post will make you guys want to throw me to the wolves and tarnish my reputation forever (doesn't help it's my first post). Anyway, a few days ago my friend and I were talking about the bands we listened to and Avenged Sevenfold came up. Before you roll your eyes or decide you want to strangle me, hear me out. We both agreed that the only decent album they put out was Waking the Fallen and everything else was garbage (aside from a few other select songs). The dispute came on when we discussed their genre shift. I myself am no expert on genres so I came here to ask you guys. I believe the album is metalcore but he thinks the album should be considered hardcore. Anyone want to help clear things up about this and help show me the finer points between the two? And while we're on the subject of the unspeakable band we both came to the conclusion that all the albums after Waking the Fallen are Hard Rock and not really metal. The first album suffered the same dispute as the second.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Bad band. Melodic Metalcore would be the label for their first two records I suspect and after that melodic rock would be a better term for the band. As for the finer points it's difficult because hardcore encompasses many forms of punk (crust, d-beat etc). Basically Metalcore is Metal (foundation of the sound) plus hardcore. Melodic Metalcore is Pop (foundation sound) plus melodic metal and hardcore in very simplified forms deep in the background.

[Stryke]

Well that was the response I expected, partially. I see you're implying that Avenged Sevenfold's second and first album have a basis in pop, which is laughable. I've looked at your past posts regarding this band and I can see you hate it with a passion and are very biased with your opinion. I'm sorry but if you think Waking the Fallen has roots in pop you must be brain dead. But thanks for the answer anyhow.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Not at all. Just because one person can't see something which is right in front of them doesn't mean it isn't there. One need look only as far as the choruses bands like this use to see their pop influence. It's not even well executed lacking the obvious qualities of pop music (i.e. being generally cheerful and uplifting regardless of actual subject matter) but these bands don't encompass the feelings evoked by metal or hardcore either. When one tries to do everything at once nothing is done well.

[KSMASH]

I think you said it best yourself, the band is pretty much a rock band. They use metalcore techniques in the guitar and drums, the vocals and song structure are pretty much basic modern rock. A lot of metalcore is pretty close to falling under rock as well, so that's another accurate genre description, although if you want to look further into metalcore's roots I can probably help. Hardcore: More aggressive punk, with riffs inspired by metal and typically uses more chord changes in a shorter repetition instead of the blues-inspired rock chord changes, which usually occur over more measures or a longer period of time. Notable artists: Black Flag, Minor Threat, Bad Brains, Discharge. Metalcore: Even further adding metal influence to the hardcore formula, typically in the form of thrash-inspired breakdowns or using punk strumming over slower beats. Notable artists: Biohazard, Cro-mags, Ringworm, Integrity. Melodic Metalcore: This is where it gets tricky for me. Like I said earlier, a lot of bands in this style are pretty close to what is considered just plain rock music. They use metalcore guitar and drum techniques, but use them in such a way that the overall songs seem to have less in common with either metal or hardcore. FFDP and A7X are good examples of this. I honestly think some people's ideas of genres are WAY too picky, but these examples I've shared seem to be the accepted standards of what constitutes the subgenres in question.